Author Topic: T4D #70 The last T4D for a while  (Read 3798 times)

Jason

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T4D #70 The last T4D for a while
« on: June 28, 2013, 12:27:58 PM »
Hi Martin,

Just in regards to your fire suppression system that you will be installing it is imperative to note what type of extinguisher substance will be dispensed. The reason I say this is because if you  use a suppression system it is very VERY  important that any ventilation going into or out of the safe is switched off. This is because you will be reintroducing oxygen into the extinguished fire especially when using Co2. Im not sure if you are aware of the issue with self heating in regards to fires in the sence that sometimes they can be like those magic birthday candles when they are blown out and they reignite again.

Personally I would recommend the use of foam, this may sound outrageous for electrical fires however a lot of people fail to realise that foam may be used on electrical fires up to 1000 volts safety. Personally I would recommend foam over Co2 and dry powder because 1, Co2 disipates too quickly and 2 it has no cooling effect on the fire. 3, dry powder has no cooling effect and honestly, it is a pain in the ass to clean up afterwards. 4, foam removes oxygen and heat from the fire triangle. Also another note is that in the unlikely event a fire does occur and is extinguished do not and I repeat do NOT remove the contents of the safe for 24 hours to ensure that contents have cooled adequately.

This may seem counter intuitive however remember the magic birthday candles? If the door of the safe is opened soon after the fire is extinguished you are almost guaranteed a reignition if the contents are still hot.  I could go on and on but please bear in mind these small factors which will guarantee your safety, I'm sure you at least would appreciate these tips. If you do insist on opening the safe after a fire then please don't open it without another extinguisher at hand. I am certified as an advanced fire fighter, one of the many perks of my past college stufies  :P

Jason
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 12:43:04 PM by Jason »
If it ain't broken, let's open it up and see how it works.

SeanB

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Re: T4D #70 The last T4D for a while
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2013, 03:07:19 PM »
Good suggestion, though I will also add that Martin should use a smoke detector with a relay driver, and use that to disconnect the power to the safe if it triggers, so that the fans stop, the smoke is kept inside and all is well cooked and cooled before looking inside. Funny enough I picked up a small Yale safe at the scrapyard for free ( dead electronic lock in it and no backup key) and I might use it for battery charging as well, or place the USB drives in it and bolt it to the floor as a backup drive.

As to video length they are fine as is, some could be longer, some could be shorter but overall I like Martin's style and presentation.

Simple way to connect the lot to fire shut off is to use a latching relay to apply power, and have the alarm contact disconnect the coil if either there is smoke or the power fails. That way the fans turn off, and if you use a separate power box then you can have it all self contained and easy to use.

Jason

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Re: T4D #70 The last T4D for a while
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2013, 03:32:32 PM »
You could even use the ethernet module on the Arduino board to remotly monitor temperatures, voltages or anything else if you use the Arduino as a server. If you were good with programming you would be able to use relays with the Arduino board server to activate /deactivate things too. That would also give you major piece of mind to know you can check in on your lab while you are out of the house. Also an ip address CCTV camera too, but that depends on your level of OCD  ;D
If it ain't broken, let's open it up and see how it works.

steve30

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Re: T4D #70 The last T4D for a while
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2013, 05:56:05 AM »
Quote
The last T4D for a while

:( T4D is my favourite segment :p.

Anyway, good luck with the safe Martin. It'll be interesting to see how the fire surpression system works. Be sure to document it all for us.

MJLorton

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Re: T4D #70 The last T4D for a while
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2013, 02:09:58 PM »
Gents...you have all provided great input.

The fire suppression unit arrived on Friday and I hope to have it installed soon. I won't start using the safe until I have tested the smoke detector....the smoke detector and relay to disconnect the fan and electrics does make a lot of sense. The fan feeding any potential combustion with oxygen has been on my mind so this solution will be perfect....CCTV and remote messaging....perhaps in a little while  :P But..won't rule it out!

The fire suppressant is a form of dry powder which I would have thought should work well in a confined space...but I have no first hand experience. The point about leaving the safe closed after an incident makes sense.

Play, discover, learn and enjoy! (and don't be scared to make mistakes along the way!)

Jason

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Re: T4D #70 The last T4D for a while
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2013, 02:49:43 PM »
The most important thing to bear in mind with powder extinguishers is that you need to turn them upside down and shake them vigorously at least once a month. This stops the powder from sticking into one big solid mass. Think of it like a bag of flour, I mean you know how when you pick up a bag of flour from the supermarket bring it home and you almost have to scoop it out with a spoon into the sieve to make it powdery again? By shaking the extinguisher you are essentialy sieving the contents.

You can try a quick simple experiment at home. Put some sieved flour into a drink glass then repeatedly tap the glass off of a wooden chopping board gently and note how the powder flattens out and wants to return into a single solid mass. This is why you must shake the extinguisher because every time something accidently hits the extinguisher is the same as an extra tap of the glass. I hope that expands your knowledge of extinguishers a little bit.
If it ain't broken, let's open it up and see how it works.

MJLorton

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Re: T4D #70 The last T4D for a while
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2013, 03:32:27 PM »
Jason...you are a wealth of knowledge in this area! I noted that the contents of the extinguisher seem to "plop" around like a solid mass....let me go shake it.....and...yes...no longer a "plopping" mass!

I certainly see an opportunity for someone to do proper reviews and demonstrations on this kind of equipment on Youtube...I certainly did not find anything that great when I was searching...

Cheers!
Play, discover, learn and enjoy! (and don't be scared to make mistakes along the way!)

steve30

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Re: T4D #70 The last T4D for a while
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2013, 03:57:22 PM »
Perhaps a new segment called Fire Extinguisher Reviews? That would make for interesting viewing :).

Jason

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Re: T4D #70 The last T4D for a while
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2013, 06:03:08 PM »
This is the college and facility I trained in should anyone be curious to sniff around: http://www.nmci.ie/firefightingfaciliti If I could get a job I could buy a camcorder and start up a firefighting and fire prevention channel. Perhaps in a few months I may be able to churn out a few videos when I'm in a position to buy equipment for review and general instruction. There are small things that people could pick up on such as again with standard dry powder, you should bang the extinguisher off the ground a few times (again to sieve), purge the extinguisher until the powder comes out of nozzle and THEN proceed to attack the fire. This is so you don't run up to the fire only to find out the powder has gone too hard and won't come out to play.  Until then Martin the niche fire prevention sector on YouTube is all yours. Besides you have a fantastic way of presenting videos :D
If it ain't broken, let's open it up and see how it works.

SeanB

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Re: T4D #70 The last T4D for a while
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2013, 12:37:52 AM »
Just remember that the dry powder is incredibly corrosive, it will destroy any electronics it gets into, unless it is thoroughly stripped and cleaned.