MJLorton Solar Power and Electronic Measurement Equipment Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Antraciet on October 15, 2012, 05:04:50 PM
-
There are so many tests to find on the internet, on Youtube. Tests about everything. And also about multimeters. Martin, David Jones and a few others, are also testing multimeters, we all know that.
But,... all those meters are new. And of course they are all working fine, also the cheap ones within their specs. What do you expect ? Is like testing a new Mercedes and a new Lada. They will be both good when they come from the factory. But test them when they are 5 years old, and you will have another picture.
Thait is why (and also for fun) i sended Martin my old multimeter, a brand : 'hapé' ; unknown. I think they stopped building multimeters.
I got it for free once, didn't used it a lot because i didn't trusted it. I still use my older analog multimeter.
I think it will be interesting to see the results, and when they are good, then is the reason noone used it a lot.
David Jones said once in one of his videos that he gave 10 cheap meters in an industrial enverimont : not one survived, and i believe him. Is like my older electric equipment, i paid a lot for Bosh, AEG,...but still working. And all the cheap stuff i sometimes buy, is broken after some use.
Yes, that is why i think to buy a Fluke, with all respect for UNI-T, but i want something that i can use next year, in 5 years too.
-
Hi, from your words my analysis is that you are a retirement hobbyist.
Which is not an accusation or a negative comment, one day all of us we will get there.
Your post is a direct advertising that Fluke meter are the most robust in the planet, which is a fake impression for our times.
There is plenty reliable manufacturers worldwide, and this is a fact.
All modern multimeters are coming to life from the same mother, which is one 100,000 dollars robotic system (as minimum cost of getting one).
It is capable to set 2,400 components per hour over PCB boards.
What come next are the casing / molding / plastics.
Add a bit of nice external design, and here you are, your product is ready, now select the brand that you wish to have on it, and it will be exactly as you like to be.
The modern multimeters came out for a reason.
The industrial electronics become even more complex, what the ancient gear does not have is speed and extra features which are needed by the modern technology that is used in our planet today.
I can guess that you are emotionally attached to your tools, and that you do favor quality as I do.
But the only way to have a realistic opinion about the latest T&M meters is to actually touch them and feel the magic in action.
The DC testing does not counts as action.
The value of the old instruments is more sentimental than real.
What good will come from showing of one oldie meter of one nonexistent company?
This could have some value if been displayed in a museum.
The LADA Jeep are still a favorable vehicle if you can stand the noise ;D
-
Thank you Kiriakos,
Lol, do i write like i am an old retired man ? :D I need to do something om my writing style then.
I am 47, electronics, electricity is a hobby. Electricity a little more because i renovate houses, and i do everything myself.
When i was younger, i was allways busy with reparing televisions, car radios's; busy with CB (citizen band), and my first little computer (an MC10 from Tandy). But my schooleducation was in construction, they choose for me :(
Now i want to restart my old hobby, and thanks to the internet and people like Martin, Dave Jones, the multimeterjunkie, Todd, and so many others is a little more easy for people like me to learn something.
I am not emotionaly etached to my tools, but on my money :D
Every time i buy something cheap, it is broken after some use. And all my expensive tools, some of them are more then 20 years old : still working.
Now : 'What good will come from showing of one oldie meter of one nonexistent company? '
Well : What good is it to show and test a brandnew meter ? And after 6 months you see other reviews videos with broken meters, even in this forum. Why would i buy it ? I can throw money in the river.
Why not test an old one ? Why they stopped making multimeters ? Or what brand is it ? What brand is Voltcraft you think ? Why do they that ?
If their stuff is good, they don't need to repaint the plastic and sell it under another name.
Who knows my old multimeter will be recugnized by someone under another name. But that is up to Martin to make a review of it, for me is not important, only fun.
Now, i don't need necessarily a Fluke, they are expensive. I listen to specialists like you Kiriakos. Give me a type of meter that i can buy in Europe; price/quality. So many brands and types. I don't see the trees in the forest anymore. I just want something that won't let me down in some years.
Something like the Fluke 179
-
It is good that we are close to age, I am counting 43 +5 months.
The evaluation of electronics is a complex process.
It is true that is hard to find this days one device that does not perform great out of the box.
And I am talking about those who are made by experienced manufacturers.
The freelancer repairman's is one group of people who does not follow the path which the metrology and the T&M business have set,
and I am talking about the often calibration reports, or sending instruments for an adjustment.
The usual tactic is to buy a tool and to count the years of good service until to get seriously damaged.
Personally I belong at the class of repairman who babysit their tools, and even so I do deliver always admirable results as final repair,
high quality of a repair and clean work, so to make the difference from the ones who usually does a sloppy work.
By be that careful at using my tools, it is not usual for me, to see my tools failing apart.
Good Multimeter ..........
Some people buy them because :
a) They work in one environment with tight regulations.
or
b) They like reliable tools
or
c) That's how their father have teach them to do.
or
d) They like to show of because of lack of true experience.
or
e) Their name is Kiriakos Triantafillou = an reliable repair man who needs other than money and one internal reinsurance,
that his own tools will not fail apart at the moment of the battle, which will lead him to loose face in front of the eyes of a customer.
As you can probably imagine, I have the same goals with the professional manufacturers who care to deliver quality and reliability,
so to gain trust and fame.
This detail explains allot of why I have today good PR with most of them.
About the final selection that you will do about buying a multimeter, it is your responsibility to buy one instrument capable to follow your level of expediences.
The kids with out experiences could feel happy with almost anything, even the most cheap ones.
As advice, I can only say, that as entry level for a experienced repair man in 2012 are the Brymen BM257,
which is loaded with features and speed, at about 120EUR with taxes.
The BM251 that Martin haves, is a naked version, non - True RMS, plus other missing features.
The BM257 wipes out all the small Fluke meters.
-
Thank for your advize, Kiriakos.
And i am gonna make you happy today :D
I just ordered the Brymen BM257 on this site : http://www.tme.eu/nl/details/bm257/draagbare-digitale-multimeters/brymen/# based in Poland, also in dutch, very easy.
With shipping and taxes : 114,87 €
Then i can 'test' that site, and i can order other stuff, they sell everything about electronics.
I let you know when i got the meter :)
You see, i am not the pope, i listen to specialists like you. And i am in your 'b' category :P
-
You are faster than a bullet, good for you . :)
-
Not really, for months i was looking for buying another one, that is why i followed all those videos on Youtube. I hope i made a good choice. Their website isn't very professional. http://www.brymen.com
But it doesn't matter, only for hobby.
-
When Japanese companies trust Brymen too, among many American and European, you have much less to worry about it.
http://www.kaise.com/automotive_2021E.htm (http://www.kaise.com/automotive_2021E.htm)
-
The meter arrived this morning. Nice meter and colour :D
But i thought the software and cable was included, but it wasn't. Pitty, if i knew i ordered that too.
The 'hold' button i don't understand, that is not what i see Martin is doing with some meters. Little pointless if you need to push the button for a hold. I have only 2 hands.
The 'EF-detection' is very usefull. It seems to work very good. When i start to renovate my house, i will use that a lot.
But i am very happy with the meter.
-
Yes the BM257 is loaded with lots of functionality which makes it comparable only with the Agilent U1230 series.
I did contact Brymen about it, and I will get one BM257 with the PC connectivity Kit for evaluation.
What I need as favor is one good picture of the meter behind a clean background (under a piece of paper),
and a picture of the test leads.
I am happy for you too. :)
-
I make some better tomorrow.
And a little video : http://youtu.be/48WSBlurn-8
-
This new tight regulation about the test leads it would kill the sales of the 2mm add-on test leads crocodiles. :)
And so the Brymen logo is white, which is better than blue as it looks in their catalog.
The test leads is not the same which comes with the BM869 which I like allot as leads.
1KV CAT IV test leads, is no surprise either, Brymen is a hot supporter of the max safety and tight regulations.
I will save the rest for my review. ;D ;D
-
The 'hold' button i don't understand, that is not what i see Martin is doing with some meters. Little pointless if you need to push the button for a hold. I have only 2 hands.
The hold on the BM257 acts exactly as the way you describe -> pointless.
I'm reading the Greenlee DM-200A/DM-210A manual and it works as documented (page 8 ).
"Press momentarily to hold the present value on the display. Press again to exit this mode.
This feature does not affect the bar graph."
-
The hold function works as one "Optical memo" and it is useful up to a point.
The touch-hold is one better solution, but it does not come at the the lower priced models.
Basically the main excuse about to disagree of how practical is the hold function,
are that you are out of free hands.
Lets count the hands... One to hold the meter and another two to hold its lead =
a) Three hands ( field work )
b) Two hands (bench work)
c) No hands ( Smart fellow with additional crocodile clips) Bench work, ( additional magnetic hanger strap ) Field work.
Brymen, Agilent, Fluke, they do offer such solutions as additional accessories.
The point is that if you wish to have the extra conveniences, they do not come for free.
Edit:
Up to date I have pay around 150$ ( American) just for Fluke accessories , soft bag, magnetic hanger , crocodile clips, additional test leads.
I did it because I like to be prepared and to make my life easier.
-
I'm reading the Greenlee DM-200A/DM-210A manual and it works as documented (page 8 ).
Just out of curiosity I've looked through the specs and pictures of the Greenlee meters and compared them to the Brymen's, and here are what I believe to be the equivalent model numbers under both brands. The prices in brackets are from Amazon.
DM-860 ($481.25, not sold by Amazon directly) = BM-859CFa
DM-860-C ($422.95) = BM-859CFa + Calibration Cert.
DM-860A (unavailable) = BM-869
DML-430A ($279.74) = BM-525
DM-810A ($173.10) = BM-822
DM-820A ($175) = BM-827
DM-830A ($238.03) = BM-829
DM-200A ($80.21) = BM-251 + Backlight
DM-210A ($93.81) = BM-252 + Backlight
DM-510A ($132.4) = BM-257
-
@iloveelectronics I do not see any pricing from Brymen.
-
@iloveelectronics I do not see any pricing from Brymen.
I don't know any website that shows Brymen's pricing except perhaps tme.eu but they don't seem to include tax and shipping info there so it's hard to compare with the Amazon prices which I believe is inclusive of shipping within the US, people might still need to pay some tax in certain states, I don't know. The only other price point I have is my own eBay store :), which has the BM-867 listed at $275, but this model doesn't correspond to any meter in the Greenlee lineup.
-
Yes the TME does not include tax, but they have shipping charges 8 EUR as standard by UPS for distribution among Europe.
The marketing manager of Brymen suggested to me and another Polish agent of them.
This one includes pricing with VAT (Tax).
He looks to have identical prices, but this website does not speak English.
http://www.biall.com.pl/company,Brymen,50.html (http://www.biall.com.pl/company,Brymen,50.html)
GreenLee looks to be a major hardware store about hand-tools and equipment.
They are not obligated to carry the full Brymen product line.
Some GreenLee multimeters they have arrive in Germany but the price jumped up by 70% and they do not worth to buy them,
the BM869 as GreenLee was close to 350 Euro , which this is plain madness.
http://www.conrad.com/GreenLee-DM-860A-Digital-Multimeter-50-000%2F500-000-counts-CAT-IV-1000-V.htm?websale7=conrad-int&pi=127173 (http://www.conrad.com/GreenLee-DM-860A-Digital-Multimeter-50-000%2F500-000-counts-CAT-IV-1000-V.htm?websale7=conrad-int&pi=127173)
-
I will save the rest for my review. ;D ;D
Yes.
I look forword to read your review. Be critical, but i am pretty sure you will be :D
-
A better picture i think, now i have some more sunlight here.
-
I have pulled the curtain !! ;D ;D
-
Hi Antraciet, I just got today my BM257, can you confirm if yours came with K-type probe, plus insulated Alligator Clip Set ? ( close example Fluke AC72 )