MJLorton Solar Power and Electronic Measurement Equipment Forum
Youtube Video Episodes => YouTube Video Episodes => Topic started by: ttp on January 15, 2013, 05:44:01 PM
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Hi Martin,
I was watching this T4D with great interest. I have bought 2 sets of TL175 recently (3-4 weeks ago) from chinese Ebay seller, the picture was of "genuine" Fluke (yellow insert with Fluke brandname) and I got exactly same items. Very nice leads and TwistGuard works smoothly. After watching your video I consider myself lucky as the price was ok (2 sets for under $AU50 - total including delivery, don't remember the price/shipping breakdown).
To add to confusion I believe I have found a third TL175 variation circulating on Ebay, very similar to the ones that you suspected of being knockoffs but with decent strain relief at plug end, see the photos (I hope they will attach).
I strongly agree with your opinion about Fluke, they should clearly confirm or deny if the probes are real Fluke or not. Their answer unfortunately undermines the trust in their brand.
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I believe the latter picture to be real as per discussion at
http://mjlorton.com/forum/index.php?topic=188.0
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Wish I've spotted the earlier thread on TL175's, interesting.
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I believe the latter picture to be real as per discussion at
http://mjlorton.com/forum/index.php?topic=188.0
Agree, the leads look decent and hopefully twist works well. On the other hand Martin received "slightly" different leads, suprisingly from US seller.
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Agree, the leads look decent and hopefully twist works well. On the other hand Martin received "slightly" different leads, suprisingly from US seller.
I suspect many USA sellers just important Fluke 17Bs and its accessories in bulk from China and then resell to the USA members who don't want to wait 3 to 4 weeks for their merchandise overseas. That is their only "value add" to the process.
I also suspect most USA sellers don't genuinely know the difference. It takes people like us to spot the difference. This an opportunity for Fluke to make an official statement on their website much like Sanwa
http://overseas.sanwa-meter.co.jp/technology/imitationwarning.php
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Wish I've spotted the earlier thread on TL175's, interesting.
No worries. I think everyone is interested in this information.
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Thanks to Martin for his videos on the TL175 variants and everyone on the forum for an interesting discussion. Here are my thoughts
In an effort to combat piracy, I have seen world class 'name brand' manufacturers pressured to make much lower cost product versions for the price competitive Chinese market. The products that I know about are not designed and manufactured in their normal facilities, for the world [quality] market. They are designed and made in China for the Chinese market. The main design criterion is price and not the stellar quality associated with the worldwide brand. Therefore the traditional brand name purchasers encountering these low priced products could be disappointed in the quality and/or features of these products designed for the Chinese market.
If Fluke China has indeed manufactured the lower grade TL175, I'm very surprised that the product number is not different from the existing world version. It could also be that Fluke licensed the design and name to a third party manufacturer. Enough speculation. An official statement from Fluke would really help.
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Enough speculation. An official statement from Fluke would really help.
Indeed!
Thanks for all your posts on the topic.
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Very interesting comment from Fluke on Martin's video:
FlukeCorporation 17 hours ago
Martin, the test leads in the video are not an approved Fluke design of our TL175. The correct design is the part available for purchase from Fluke, the same design worldwide. We always suggest buying from authorized Fluke dealers, listed on our website. If you'd like to discuss this further or have questions for us, feel free to message us here and we'll get back to you.
The way they worded it though still leaves some room for imagination. Could these be manufactured by Fluke authorized factories in China without the approval of their headquarters in the US, just to improve their sales figure for the very price sensitive and competitive Chinese market?
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The way they worded it though still leaves some room for imagination. Could these be manufactured by Fluke authorized factories in China without the approval of their headquarters in the US, just to improve their sales figure for the very price sensitive and competitive Chinese market?
I would not be surprised by that :)
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The way they worded it though still leaves some room for imagination. Could these be manufactured by Fluke authorized factories in China without the approval of their headquarters in the US, just to improve their sales figure for the very price sensitive and competitive Chinese market?
Strange wording, not unusal for corporate "engineers" but it sounds clear to me that a set of probes with little/no strain relief at plug end is a fake. I'm glad I've ended up with genuine ones buying from China (or they are a perfect copy :) ).
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Would it be a clear-cut fake if it was manufactured by a Fluke authorized facility, based on an unapproved cost cutting design, and even being sold in genuine packages of Fluke equipments? To me there seems to be "spectrum" of fakes in China, and these TL175's certainly fall somewhere in there, but I consider them closer to the genuine end than the blatant fake end.
Strange wording, not unusal for corporate "engineers" but it sounds clear to me that a set of probes with little/no strain relief at plug end is a fake. I'm glad I've ended up with genuine ones buying from China (or they are a perfect copy :) ).
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I know there are two threads about this but I thought I would pop this here.
I contacted the eBay seller about the Fluke leads and here is what they had to say:
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Dear mjlorton,
We are contacting them now (the FLuke distributor in china - where we bought the product from). Today is their last working day before the biggest Chinese New Year holiday. They will come back to work on Feb. 16 or 17 (Sat/Sun).
We'll see what we can get from them. and I'll keep you informed.
Thank you and have a good evening.
- atiestore
Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply
Respond
From: mjlorton
To: atiestore
Subject: Re: Other: mjlorton sent a message about NEW FLUKE 17B F17B Digital Multimeter w/ Free Case w/ Fluke Test Leads TL175 #221050433989
Sent Date: Feb-05-13 12:11:40 PST
Dear atiestore,
Thanks, I do appreciate you coming back to me. This all makes me believe that Fluke Corporation USA are not stating all the facts.
If you do ever get any more concrete information I would really appreciated it if you could pass it on to me.
Thanks for the great service and communication.
Cheers,
Martin.
- mjlorton
From: atiestore
To: mjlorton
Subject: Re: Other: mjlorton sent a message about NEW FLUKE 17B F17B Digital Multimeter w/ Free Case w/ Fluke Test Leads TL175 #221050433989
Sent Date: Feb-05-13 06:10:41 PST
Dear mjlorton,
Hi Martin:
All our FLUKE products were purchased from the FLUKE distributors in China. They are original FLUKE products. I'm not sure what type of certifications we can get from them. The only thing we can do is to ask them again - (but I guess the answers are - "original").
It might because the test leads were made in FLUKE China, not FLUKE in USA??? I'm not sure though.
Thank you.
- atiestore
From: mjlorton
To: atiestore
Subject: Re: Other: mjlorton sent a message about NEW FLUKE 17B F17B Digital Multimeter w/ Free Case w/ Fluke Test Leads TL175 #221050433989
Sent Date: Feb-04-13 07:11:26 PST
Dear atiestore,
Thanks for your prompt reply. I run a Youtube channel and posted a video about them and the answer from Fluke seems a little flaky.
Here is a link to the video and you can see the response from the Fluke Corporation underneath: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDaNRizEhK0
If they do turn out to be fake I certainly don't hold any grudge against yourselves...I thought they might be. So no worries there, I just want to try get Fluke to provide a proper response.
Is there any way you can help me verify that they come from Fluke in China?
Cheers,
Martin.
- mjlorton
From: atiestore
To: mjlorton
Subject: Re: Other: mjlorton sent a message about NEW FLUKE 17B F17B Digital Multimeter w/ Free Case w/ Fluke Test Leads TL175 #221050433989
Sent Date: Feb-04-13 07:02:19 PST
Dear mjlorton,
Thank you for letting us know. Everything is from FLUKE manufacture in China, except the carrying bag which is free to all buyers. The test leads are from FLUKE as well.
Thank you.
- atiestore
From: mjlorton
To: atiestore
Subject: Other: mjlorton sent a message about NEW FLUKE 17B F17B Digital Multimeter w/ Free Case w/ Fluke Test Leads TL175 #221050433989
Sent Date: Feb-04-13 06:54:31 PST
Dear atiestore,
Thanks, your meter did arrive safely. There has been a fair amount of debate whether those TL175 leads were produced by Fluke. Are you able to confirm if they are genuine Fluke leads?
Thanks,
Martin.
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I'm just about to post a follow-up to the Fluke leads and other issues I have with Fluke.
The link to the video will be here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z26ymU0VRVI
Here is a certificate from the eBay seller showing where he purchases his Fluke equipment.
Franky has translated / noted that it names the seller and his location.
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Response from Fluke:
FlukeCorporation 7 hours ago
Thanks, Martin. We have dug in to the question w/our product team. The only TL175s licensed for sale have bright yellow on the logo. Sounds like you may have a pre-production unit, but we can’t know for sure unless we see them. If they haven't already, a product specialist will be in touch to exchange the probes you bought. Re: the 289-We are aware that the product has a light-sensitive IR port. We’re committed to fixing the issue and have verified w/engineering that a fix is in the works.
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Good stuff! Finally a response from Fluke, although they still incorrectly referred to the 289 instead of your 287 :)
Resonance from Fluke:
FlukeCorporation 7 hours ago
Thanks, Martin. We have dug in to the question w/our product team. The only TL175s licensed for sale have bright yellow on the logo. Sounds like you may have a pre-production unit, but we can’t know for sure unless we see them. If they haven't already, a product specialist will be in touch to exchange the probes you bought. Re: the 289-We are aware that the product has a light-sensitive IR port. We’re committed to fixing the issue and have verified w/engineering that a fix is in the works.
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My response to Fluke:
While your response is rather late it is still appreciated. I have one small but important request. Can you please post a bulletin on your website regarding the light-sensitive IR port on the Fluke 287 /289 so that your customers are formally informed and aware of the status to fix the problem. Thanks , Martin.
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This email just received from Fluke:
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Hello Martin,
My name is Duane Smith. Im a product specialist with the multimeter group at Fluke. I’ve been meaning to get back with you much sooner than this but things never work out quite as planned. I wanted to address two issues you brought up in your videos a month ago or so.
1. TL175 test leads—Are they real or are they knockoff’s?
From your video it appears that these leads may be pre-production versions of the TL175 test leads but I cannot confirm without physically seeing these leads. I would appreciate it if we could arrange for return of those leads to me so I can see them? I would gladly replace with a new set.
The reason I say Pre Production is the fact that that there is no yellow coloration over the Fluke logo on the probe body. Since these leads were introduced, we have only shipped leads with our customary yellow over the Fluke logo. We did produce some amount of test leads without the yellow coloration prior to our introduction but these leads were not sold with new product to my knowledge. How our distributor came about them I cant say at the moment as I don’t know but I would really like to see if these in fact were our probes.
2. 28X IR port issues
We have finally developed a fix for the 28X IR port communication problem which is in its final phases of testing before we get it out to our site for customer release. Its been a long time in coming but we finally have it in hand. I neglected to respond to you much earlier, as months ago we did not have a solution in hand to talk about but we do now. As I said testing is still wrapping up but if you are interested I can arrange for you to update your firmware and test for yourself? Please let me know if you might be interested?
We really do appreciate your feedback and your support of the test and measurement community.
Regards, Duane Smith
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Duane Smith Fluke Corp.
DMM Marketing Support Everett, WA
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Hello.
1. Nothing new now. But nice to have a confirm.
2. I bet, you be interested. I´m wrong?
But how? Sure you need the IR-Connection to update. But if you haven´t the cable and software? Send the meter to Fluke?
Greetings from Germany,
Hartmut
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With no 2 I would guess they would need to have the meter if you do not have an IR cable, and I guess part of the fix is a IR filter as well to place in the window. Thus it will be both a software update and a physical addon to place inside the meter. I would guess a lot of customers will use the agents to do so ( as they most likely bought from the same agent), and will otherwise issue the necessary parts on a per serial number basis if you have the cable and are prepared to DIY, at your own risk of bricking the meter.
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Interesting thoughts on point 2....I'm keen to see what implications that has for Fluke.
I've been told I'll get the new firmware to test in about one week...no mention about an IR window...perhaps it's in the firmware... :P