Author Topic: Tutorial: How to Solar Power Your Home / House #4 - Off Grid setup, PWM vs MPPT  (Read 17451 times)

LightAges

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Martin:

Please excuse the correction but there is a serious error in this episode.

You mention short term usage with clouds and having the luxury to charge for a longer time when not at the cabin. This is only correct to the point that your panels can provide a MINIMUM charge rate of 5-13% of the batteries rated capacity, depending on the type of battery. This is because lead-acid battery chemistry needs a sufficient charge rate to stir the electrolyte so that you are not just charging the electrolyte that is in static contact with the plates. Therefore whatever the battery size, no matter what the actual usage in power is, you need to meet this minimum. 5% for AGMs and up to 13% for some liquid acid types. Charge a battery below this and you will sulphate the batteries in very short time and even before that they will not meet their capacity rating.

SeanB

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Thanks for that tip, i just looked aty my panel setup ( simple and very basic) and it is doing 1.6A on an overcast day. Plenty enough for the 36AH battery at the moment, I get over 2A on a bright sunny day, but have not measured peak current yet. Panel is rated to deliver SC current of 4.7A.

LightAges

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Many people think they can just set a huge battery bank that will survive a full weekend of use and then can trickle charge back to health over the next 2 months they are not at the cabin. That just does not work that way.

SeanB

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I put back more that what I use each day, as i only use the power to do light at night ( and in case of power failure as well) and it always does get to the point of doing charge control, except on a fully overcast and rainy day. Peak current draw with all lights on is currently 3A, and generally for a maximum of 5 hours a night and normally at a lower level. Thus I go about 30% of full charge at most, normally probably around 15% ( noisy data set though) so the battery is exercised but not abused.

MJLorton

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Martin:

Please excuse the correction but there is a serious error in this episode.

You mention short term usage with clouds and having the luxury to charge for a longer time when not at the cabin. This is only correct to the point that your panels can provide a MINIMUM charge rate of 5-13% of the batteries rated capacity, depending on the type of battery. This is because lead-acid battery chemistry needs a sufficient charge rate to stir the electrolyte so that you are not just charging the electrolyte that is in static contact with the plates. Therefore whatever the battery size, no matter what the actual usage in power is, you need to meet this minimum. 5% for AGMs and up to 13% for some liquid acid types. Charge a battery below this and you will sulphate the batteries in very short time and even before that they will not meet their capacity rating.

Thanks...very good point and noted....and added annotation to the video.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 07:56:27 AM by MJLorton »
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John Eckert

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As a former employee of SolarWorld, Shell Solar, and Siemens Solar (over 18 Years experience) I thought I might post a little something on the manufacturing process of Silicon Wafers.
In addition: If anyone is interested I will post more on solar and the actual construction of a module.

SILICON WAFER MANUFACTURING:

Silicon wafers are manufactured from Poly silicon.  Moreover, Poly silicon is used in almost all integrated circuits in the electronics industry.  Made from quartzite, a pure form of sand, the quartzite is treated to create polycrystalline silicon (poly silicon), a very pure silicon with multiple single-crystal regions of different sizes and orientations.  The poly silicon is used to "grow" a single-crystal or mono-crystalline ingot that is sliced into wafers.

Here is a description of what is involved to make crystalline silicon wafers.

Poly-silicon and a Boron doping is loaded into a quartz vessel for a crystal grower and heated to its melting point.  A piece of polycrystalline silicon with the correct atomic orientation known as a seed is lower into the vessel and slowly rotated and raised forming a crystal ingot. A one thousand millimeter long, one hundred fifty millimeter diameter crystal ingot takes about 24 hours to grow properly.

NOTE: This growing process can take hours to days depending on the diameter and the length of the crystal.  In addition, a crystal grower will pull anywhere from a few hundred kilowatts to Megawatts.

After the crystal ingot is formed, the top of the grower is opened the crystal ingot is lifted out using a crane or hoist, and then allowed to slowly cool down.  Improper cooling can cause cracks, fractures, and breakage. Even a micro fracture known as a “slip” seen only by a microscope can cause a failure and is unacceptable.
The crystal ingot then is taken to an area where the ends of the crystal ingot are cut off perpendicular to its length and cut into lengths for a saw, then depending if the wafers are to be round  or square the ingot will either turned, and ground down the a specific diameter, or mounted in a jig and “squired up” to formed the four sides in the wafer and then moved off to the saw area.

In the saw area, the ingots are mounted (normally on etched glass) using epoxy, allowed to cure for a minimum of twelve hours, and then placed onto the saw.

The saws used today are commonly known as “wire saws” they replaces the old type saws with metal blades years ago but I have operated both.  A wire saw takes a spool of very thin wire, one hundred to two hundred kilometers long, only a few microns thick.  The wire is threaded through tension pulleys and spindles (Rollers) to form what is known a web, and then taken to the taken to the “take-up real.

These wire saws cut the ingot into wafers in just one pass by use of cutting slurry made up of silicon carbide and cutting oil. The typical wafer thickness between one hundred microns (0.1mm) and two hundred microns (0.200mm) thick and can take six to eighteen hours to complete its cutting cycle.
Some wire saws can cut up to four crystal ingots in one pass with two ingot set-ups being the most common.

After the sawing process, the wafers still mounted to the glass are rinsed with solvent and un-mounted from the saw and placed in to a carrier and sent for additional cleaning.

The sliced ingot (now wafers) are placed into solvent tanks and agitated, then rinsed and placed into acidic acid to make the epoxy pliable and then rinsed more.
The wafers then undergo one hundred percent inspection and placed into polypropylene cassettes (sometimes referred to as boats) and moved off for further cleaning.
The above process is standard in both the semi-conductor and photovoltaic industries.
Feel free to contact me here on the forum or at testbenchtech@gmail.com  with questions /comments.

egomez_mx

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Hi all, nice to meet you, this is my first post on this blog. I wanted to use the title of this post so I wouldn't open another for the same video. My question is that at the end of the video Martin mentions another video as a sort of continuation, but I can't find it, any one can point me to that video? Thanks in advance, greetings, Edgar

MJLorton

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Hi all, nice to meet you, this is my first post on this blog. I wanted to use the title of this post so I wouldn't open another for the same video. My question is that at the end of the video Martin mentions another video as a sort of continuation, but I can't find it, any one can point me to that video? Thanks in advance, greetings, Edgar
Hello,

Here it is: Tutorial: How to Solar Power Your Home #5 - Solar Panel and System Installer selection - http://youtu.be/dqOJXkifWno
Play, discover, learn and enjoy! (and don't be scared to make mistakes along the way!)

MJLorton

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As a former employee of SolarWorld, Shell Solar, and Siemens Solar (over 18 Years experience) I thought I might post a little something on the manufacturing process of Silicon Wafers.
In addition: If anyone is interested I will post more on solar and the actual construction of a module.

Feel free to contact me here on the forum or at testbenchtech@gmail.com  with questions /comments.
Brilliant! Thanks very much for the post John...a very interesting read. I certainly was not aware of the involved process.
Cheers, Martin.
Play, discover, learn and enjoy! (and don't be scared to make mistakes along the way!)

e8hffff

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Am I correct to say that the LOSS mentioned is solely only during battery charging?  If one uses power in the situation whilst charging, the efficiency is increased.

The real question is do general battery chargers allow for load direct from the solar panels or do they need load to draw power from batteries?

If a Charge Controller does isolate the solar panels from the load, then can one run a parallel voltage regulator to source off the unused energy for your immediate load?

LightAges

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You can think of it this way. Once the battery charger has finished charging the batteries, any excess power available can be used for the load. As long as the voltage at the batteries stays above the floating voltage setting, the extra energy is drawn from the charger directly and not the batteries, and as long as there is sufficient sun to do so.

e8hffff

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You can think of it this way. Once the battery charger has finished charging the batteries, any excess power available can be used for the load. As long as the voltage at the batteries stays above the floating voltage setting, the extra energy is drawn from the charger directly and not the batteries, and as long as there is sufficient sun to do so.

So if I did a parallel circuit to the battery-charger, with its own 12v regulator so as to suit the requirements to input into an inverter, then I could siphon off the excess power?

LightAges

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You connect the inverter and the charger to the battery. The inverter needs to be able to withstand the charging voltage of the battery. Most inverters are made to do this. The maximum voltage a three stage charger should supply a 12V battery is around 14.8V during the absorption phase. When the battery is charged, the charger should try to maintain around 13.6-13.8V. Anytime the inverter tries to draw current, the voltage will drop and the charger will increase its output to maintain the 13.6V. Only when the solar panel(s) can't supply the power needed will the voltage drop below the float voltage and you will start to use some energy from the battery.

e8hffff

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You connect the inverter and the charger to the battery. The inverter needs to be able to withstand the charging voltage of the battery. Most inverters are made to do this. The maximum voltage a three stage charger should supply a 12V battery is around 14.8V during the absorption phase. When the battery is charged, the charger should try to maintain around 13.6-13.8V. Anytime the inverter tries to draw current, the voltage will drop and the charger will increase its output to maintain the 13.6V. Only when the solar panel(s) can't supply the power needed will the voltage drop below the float voltage and you will start to use some energy from the battery.

Hi LightAges.  Sorry you may not seeing the context I'm writing this in.  You need to watch the video where it reveals how whilst charging batteries using a PWM charge-controller you don't access all the electrons capable from the solar panels.  There's a bottle neck depending on the voltage the battery array is at, referenced to the overall current/wattage rating.

What I was asking is, can you not only charge the battery but also source off the unused energy toward useful load, simply by using a parallel wire to the charger-line, with a regulator and maybe diode to bring powering into the common load wiring.

This wouldn't be needed if the charge controller allowed 'load' to source before charge stage.

e8hffff

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« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 04:11:31 PM by e8hffff »